I would argue, and I wouldn't be alone, that this is the episode in these early days of BVS where the show really begins to find its footing in terms of tone and consistency of approach, where it begins to really create the universe that will grow and expand over the rest of the series history. Angel and Buffy become the tortured lovers that will continue on to the very end of the show (and carry on in the spin-off that will be Angel); the back story of Angel presented here takes on a life on its own, and will lead to one of the great arcs in the Whedon-verse, as Darla returns from the undead and becomes the mother of Angel's son, all of which leads to, yet again, a near apocalypse. But that's Angel, and this is Buffy, and for us this taps in perfectly with the theme of this class, the story a young girl's ascent into adulthood.
1. So what's the story here for Buffy in terms of "growing up Buffy"? How does, for you, this episode carry on the metaphor this class is postulating: that BVS is really a coming-of-age story?
2. What moment or scene in the episode stuck with you? And why?
3. I was thinking about what we started saying in class today about Buffy vs. Cordelia: in a lot of ways they are mirrors of each other (and as the show goes on, and specifically when Cordelia moves onto the Angel spinoff after BVS, season three, we see her doing what Buffy does—fighting evil). Cordelia right now has her entourage, just as Buffy has hers. Of course, right now what makes the two very different is how they exist in their respective little groups. From what we've seen so far, what's the main difference between the cliques these two girls exist in—and to what possible point that Whedon might be making as we look at these rivals?
Finally. Just a quick clip of Angelus himself, Angel, from his own series. Spike, a character we will meet soon enough, calls Angel "Broody Pants." He's not broody below.
See you all tomorrow.
To put it simply, Buffy is dealing with guy problems, which is normal for a 16 year old girl sometimes except for the fact that the guy is an undead vampire (total ripoff of twilight or the other way around). That aside, Buffy is maturing relationship-wise, which I guess could fit into the coming of age theme.
ReplyDeleteThere wasn’t a particular moment that stuck out to me in this episode. Sure there were a couple moments that kind of freaked you out that are memorable, like when we see Darla’s vampire face at the window. Mostly I was just wondering throughout the episode on how creepy angel can be and how the hell could Buffy possibly like him. Come on, the dude stalks her and sleeps in her room. He’s multiple of hundreds of years old but he doesn’t mind making out with a girl that is less that 1/20th of his age. Thats like me kissing a girl less that 3 months old - gross, creepy, disgusting (puts the Buffy/Angel thing into perspective though right?). The guy was also a murderous psychopath for most of his life. Even if he’s “changed” now, how come does Buffy trust him almost instinctively. She doesn’t want to kill him even when she found out who he is and can’t when he presents the opportunity. Still, if I’ve learned anything on my short time on earth, its two things. 1. Love and logic go together like oil and water. 2. If you think thats messy, try adding TV to the mixture
Both Buffy and Cordelia are the leaders of there respective groups, but Cordelia controls her group and leads by force. Buffy doesn’t try to maintain control over her group but the others follow her because she holds their loyalty. Wedon might be making an example out of these dynamics to illustrate the differences between having a group of true friends that are their for you (even if you sometimes don’t want them to be) and a group of false friends that might abandon you at a second’s notice if not for your manipulation and control.
1) Buffy just wants to be a normal 16 years old girl, but she can not. She wants to have boy problems, and she gets them, but at the same time she is fighting evil. It would seem like those two cannot coexist if everything was perfect, but that’s not the case for Buffy. I think in some aspects, yes, BVS is a coming of age story.
ReplyDelete2) The part of the episode where Buffy and Giles train is slightly humorous. Buffy finds the crossbow, but Giles does not think she’s ready for it. She proves him wrong and it shows that she already was partially trained before coming to Sunnydale. I thought this was interesting because Giles is not used to being a Watcher, and Buffy is not used to having a team.
3) The main difference is that Cordelia seems to have a group of only popular girls, whereas Buffy has one boy, Willow, and a teacher. Most people’s best friends are not their teachers. Cordelia controls her group by scaring them into submission; she calls them names and mocks them. Buffy is kind and a little scared for her friends. I think that Joss is trying to prove a point of being careful of whom you decide to be friends with.
This episode is the classic boy issues episode. Every girl has them. Every girl wished she didn't. Throughout the episode, Buffy and Willow gossip and swoon over their respective guys and I couldn't help but go "Yup. Me and Margaret." She also has the added "older guy" in the begining. I couldn't help laughing just because I new he was, like, 200 years older, but it really is a common teenager thing. You like this guy and you know he's too old for you, but golly, you just can't help it. Yeah.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I couldn't help but think of the scene with them in her room and the kiss. During that scene, when he says he's older, I was thinking how unrealistic this was, or unhealthy for that matter. He was suposed to look about 20-ish right? She's a sophmore in highschool. Two very different maturity levels. I think that she shouldn't try to be with a man that much older than her. It never bodes well.
Finally, third. Cordilia and Buffy are both the centers of their packs. They both are natural leaders but they lead very differently. Cordilia seems to just shut down anyone who undermines her athority or view of what's normal. Buffy seems to raise up those around her, making those around her want to raise her up as well. Buffy's the type of person who gets popular at Paideia in that regard.
We discussed that this show takes the common themes of the horror and teen comedy drama and takes them to the next level, and in this level it takes boy troubles to the next level. Boy troubles are a common narrative in teen comedy, but here it’s turned into something truly forbidden: a slayer and a vampire. Sometimes a teen may feel like the world is against them, but here it really is. Things seem to always work out for Buffy, but here there is no way the situation can work out in a positive way. There is so much at stake here, and situations like this cause people to grow up.
ReplyDeleteThe moment that stuck with me was at the end of the episode with the image of the cross burned into Angel. Because it seemed that Buffy and Angel’s relationship had worked out and they were going to be fine since they cared so much about each other, but with this image, it’s clear that nothing is ever going to be normal in this relationship. Buffy is so eager to be normal, but with this relationship, she’s kind of asking for trouble and this image was a reminder that things aren’t going to be okay.
I think the main difference is that one group is worrying about saving the world and the other group is mainly worrying about another girl wearing the same dress. One group is evil and the other fights evil. I think both girls are natural leaders and are more similar then we would initially think. Cordelia is a rival of Buffy, but Buffy has actual cruel and evil monsters to worry about. Cordelia is the least of her problems. These two rivals are more alike than different, and obviously they are drawn to one another, because initially, they got along and were friends.
1. I agree with what just about everyone else has been saying. This is the boy trouble episode, not just for Buffy but also for Willow on a smaller scale. They talk about their crushes and why it can never really work. Buffy has the typical "we can never be together" thing going because her mom will never be ok with it, and he's older and dangerous and all that but she can't help but love him. It's the teen romance story; except in this case the problem is the boy is a vampire. It shows how the show not only twists the horror storyline but also teen comedy. All of Buffy's teenager problems are magnified because everything is much more life and death.
ReplyDelete2. The ending when Buffy kisses Angel is the part of this episode that stuck with me most. When we see that cross burned into his skin, it seems symbolic of the suffering that their love will cause them and I think that moment brings the point home. I also like this moment because there's the comedy element of Willow and Xander sitting in the corner and Xander trying not to look. The moment where Angel stakes Darla also stuck with me, but more because I know what happens later.
3. Cordelia and Buffy are both leaders of their groups, both powerful girls, but the way they use this power is very different. Buffy acts like more of an equal with her friend group than Cordelia does with hers, which is odd because Buffy is unique and more powerful. Cordelia appears similar to all her other friends, but she still acts like she's so much better. Cordelia looks down on her friends, in Harvest we see her talking over them, refusing to let anyone get a word in. Maybe the creators are showing how in the clique that's supposed to be the "losers", closer bonds are formed and there's much more trust. Also because they work together as a team and know more of each other secrets, there seems to be more equality. Cordelia is mean partly because she need to be to remain in control of her group. Buffy and her friends seem to have more meaningful friendships than anyone in Cordelia's group.
Unless you're one of those people who are at least borderline asexual, the discovery of real romantic relationships is a key element in growing up, and coming of age for that matter. Here, Buffy finds her first love, a big milestone in many teenagers' lives. However, there's a layer that depicts the seriousness of the relationship's forbidden quality. "But what about the children..??" Willow asks. The relationships that youth deal with at this time tends to stray away from that level. It's more about connecting rather than the aftermath of the connection. Angel is a very exemplary metaphor for that first love, although if he were a bit more fun than that metaphor would have better seams.
ReplyDeleteThis is basically all of Angel's moments, but what's been sticking with me is his utter ridiculousness. His approach and his brooding and his melodrama may be justified, but at this point, contrasting the still "virgin", per se, characters, he just seems laughably ridiculous. What gets me is that upon my first viewing I found him alluring and I desperately wanted him and Buffy to work out.
I feel like the main contrast is superficiality vs. reality. Although the superficial group (Cordelia's) focuses on problems that teens face in reality, they don't show any compassion and their minds don't seem to go past shopping and boys. Just as the reality group (Buffy's) focus is on mythical monsters and demons, which to our knowledge don't exist in the real world, and certainly don't act as repetitive problems in the average teenager's life, the lessons learnt from dealing with the darker aspects of life definitely give the group a deeper, realer sense. Furthermore, the superficial group shows the stereotype of teenaged girls, and Buffy's group shows problems that have to be faced (e.g. parental relationships, bullying, actual relationships).
1. I think that Angel is the perfect metaphor for the "bad boy boyfriend." Like others have said, Buffy takes the problems that teenagers face and uses the mysticism of vampires and witches to amplify them. In the last episode we watched, "The Witch," Buffy took the issues of the mother-daughter relationship and took it to the next level by making the mother a witch. In this episode, not only is Angel the type of boy that a mother would not approve of (a boy that's not good for her) but he is actually hazardous to her well-being. Buffy is literally flirting with death and it is this experience that is going to force her to mature and to control herself.
ReplyDelete2. I think that the scene that struck me the most was when Angel killed Delia because even though it was extremely predicable and cheesy it really solidified Angel's questionable status as the good guy.
3. I think that Buffy's clique and Cordelia's "clique" differ in that Xander and Willow became close friends with Buffy mainly because their lives depended on it. Actually, you could almost say that the people in Cordelia's clique became friends with her in order to survive (except in their case it was to survive High School, not just survive...period). Cordelia, like most typical popular girls, acquires her power by putting others down. Her strength comes from intimidation and fear while Buffy's strength originates from her physical strength.
1. Like most 16-year-old girls, they will soon enough come across boy problems and that is exactly what Buffy has started to face in this episode. Angel starts out being this mysterious guy that she sees only so often. However, as the episode progresses Buffy soon realizes what Angel really is; a Vampire. This particular theme of young love being among enemies or opposites roams around the field of literature or media. Buffy and Angel could even be “Start-Crossed Lovers” as Shakespeare might say. Even though Buffy and Angel’s relationship is a big part of the show, Willow and Xander are starting to open up about their romance interests. As we’ve known since episode 1, Xander is freakishly obsessed with Buffy. On the other hand, Willow started telling Buffy how she imagines Xander coming up to her and kissing her. This episode defiantly shows the coming of age of these characters and how love plays a huge role as they are going through their teenager years.
ReplyDelete2. Probably the thing that really stood out the most to me was the very end. After Angel has kissed Buffy the camera focuses on Angel’s neck where it shows the cross that he gave Buffy burned into his skin. This is obviously very important and symbolic for something, which I haven’t quite figured out, but this was defiantly the scene that stood out the most.
3. Buffy hangs out with three distinct people, and that is Willow, Giles and Xander. Willow and Xander are outcasts and I guess “nerdy”. Giles is the Librarian. That pretty much sums up how odd Buffy’s friends are because you don’t find students buddies with the librarian. However, Cordelia on the other hand is a part of a huge group of popular girls that seem to run the school.
1. Buffy the Vampire Slayer is clearly a coming-of-age-story: Buffy is dealing with wanting to fit in, have friends, and be independent. The episode we watched today brought up a whole other, and equally important, aspect of being a teenage girl: boys and love. Buffy has a major crush on Angel which, compared to the end of the world, doesn’t seem that important, but to Buffy it is. That just goes to show how much of a teenager Buffy is and how much growing she still has to do.
ReplyDelete2. I wasn’t a huge fan of the episode we watched today nor did I find any of it very memorable (which probably has to do with the fact that I really dislike Angel), but if I had to pick it would probably be the scene where Buffy and Angel first kiss and then he turns into a vampire and flees the room. This is an important moment because Buffy comes to realize that Angel is far from perfect, much like everything else in her life. Once a faultless figure in Buffy’s eyes, Angel’s dark side is finally seen and we see just how flawed he truly is.
3. Buffy’s clique and Cordelia’s might not be all that different if it wasn’t for the fact that Buffy and her friends are always busy stopping the world from ending. Cordelia’s crowd is clearly very focused on the superficial: being popular and attractive, wearing all the new fashions, etc. Buffy, Willow, and Xander can’t focus on that because they have more pressing issues at hand, but maybe if they didn’t they wouldn’t be so different from Cordelia and her friends – unfortunately we’ll never know for sure. This might just be because we see everything from Buffy’s perspective, but her group does seem overall kinder and more down to earth, whereas Cordelia’s consists of catty and pompous girls.
1. As you grow up you are faced with more and more challenges and as you overcome them, you get a little tougher and you learn a little more. To me, that's not always a good thing, but for Buffy she literally gets stronger as she continues to fight tougher battles. Buffy is growing up as a teenager and growing as a Slayer. My favorite part of her character is that most "superheroes" if we can put her in that category, either are born with powers, or choose to do what they do, but Buffy has no choice. If we compare her to someone such as Harry Potter (who I love) and who is also "the Chosen One" he rarely questions his role. He has no problem with it. Buffy, understandably, does.
ReplyDelete2. This has never been one of my favorite episodes, but I always did remember the cross burning moment. I'm not a huge Bangel fan, so I view it as a sign that they were never meant to be. Everything's too complicated with them. Plus Angel is a huge stalker.
3. I feel like Cordelia is Buffy a year ago. Like you said, she later goes on to be a hero herself, and has some of the most drastic character development ever. I also don't look at her like "the popular girl". That's not really what motivates her. What motivates her is herself. She thinks she's perfect and she demands everyone worship her as such. She could be in a situation where she is the lowest of the low and she'd still diss the "queen bee"'s outfit. If Cordelia has one virtue it's that she is true to herself. Nobody can push her around. Buffy is the same way as the Slayer, though more banter-y than mean. Even when she's outnumbered she has the perfect comeback. Buffy may be more aware and smarter than she once was, and more so than Cordelia, but she still has confidence and she still just wants to end up on top, no matter where she starts out. That's why I love them as a team, their sheer will to believe they can win usually is why they win. Some may consider them enemies, but I consider them equals.
Buffy is trying to be a regular teenager, but vampires and witches and all that stuff always appears and affects her attempt to be normal. She is dealing with her love life, but like usual, there is something to do with evil creatures. The show is about her having to deal with all that stuff on the side while continuing to try to live a normal life for a teenager.
ReplyDeleteThe scene that stuck with me is when they are talking about Angel’s past. I thought it was interesting how just because he got his soul back he loses his bloodthirstiness and killer instinct. He turned from being the most ruthless vampire to the nicest.
Cordelia and Buffy are the alpha dogs of their groups, but Buffy actually likes the people in her group. It is clear that she likes Willow, and even though she doesn’t seem interested in Xander, she likes him. Cordelia, however, treats her friends badly and only cares about herself. Buffy is a much more caring person and better friend than Cordelia. Cordelia’s group is only concerned with their image, while Buffy’s group care about each other. The writer is trying to say that it is better to have true friends and not necessarily be cool than to have fake friends and be cool.
1. this episode illustrates coming of age in the obvious way of first love. Buffy is taking a step into the scary and unpredictable adult world of romance with this mysterious "older" man. in this episode, Buffy falls for the dreamy dangerous hero, but then has to compartmentalize her feelings and see him for the potential danger he truly is. she is forced to realize the full force of her supernatural duty when emotion comes into the picture, revealed when she says, "i've killed a lot of vampires, but i've never hated one before."
ReplyDelete2. the moment in this episode which stuck with me was when we learn Angel's true reason for helping Buffy to defeat the Master. in his apartment with Darla, we hear all about the curse and see the blood in his fridge, and how he is living as a human. i think this part was so big for me is because it's a reveal of a huge character in the story to come and gives us a glimpse of his mysterious past.
3. the main difference between Cordelia and Buffy right now is the fact that Cordelia is living her superficial high school life, deliberately trying to ignore anything out of the ordinary, while Buffy is experiencing the "real" world and having to mature in ways which adults continue to learn to do. Buffy is, in a way, protecting Cordelia's idealistic little bubble of life by kicking what ever tries to enter's ass. though Cordelia is not a bad guy per say, she's not yet a good guy whom we want to root for and see win. although Cordelia in some ways symbolizes who Buffy wishes she could be in Sunnydale, at the same time she is displaying exactly what Buffy does not want to be, as she has yet to realize.
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ReplyDelete1) This episode in particular plays into the coming-of-age story since it brings up the issue of teenage girls thinking about boys. Part of growing up for a teenage girl is beginning to notice boys in your life, and starting to incorporate them whether it first starts out as friends and then leads to a deeper relationship or just continuing as friends. Growing up as a girl, your close friends tend to be of the same sex, and boys have cooties. Once your teenage years hit, this totally changes and it becomes socially acceptable to befriend boys. I think that this episode does a good job of showing the thrill of thinking about boys in this new, relationship, boyfriend-ish way.
ReplyDelete2) I would have to say the moment where Buffy and Willow are in the library discussing Angel and Buffy’s thoughts about liking him. Though this scene was primarily to show Darla spying on them, I found Willow and Buffy’s discussion very real. The way they interacted by Buffy sharing her story and Willow glowing for Buffy, as if living vicariously through her, I believe is an occurrence that happens often with teenage girls.
3) Once significant difference between the two groups is the lack of brains as well as true friendship that goes on within Cordelia’s group, whereas Buffy, Willow, and Xander accept each other for who they are. Buffy accepts them though they are technically the dorks within high school, and Xander and Willow accept Buffy although she is extremely different by being the slayer. Though, another key difference is the fact that Buffy, Xander, and Willow work together as a group, whereas Cordelia is the sole leader and has to have everything her own way. I think that Whedon is trying to make the point that the Buffy group’s mentality prevails in the end since Cordelia begins to slowly shift towards them and befriend them.
1. Angel is Buffy's first inkling of a boyfriend on the show. He is the good vampire who doesn't drink human blood straight from the vein. Having a boyfriend is a big milestone in growing up. Through the episode Buffy is forced seriously think about the person she might get involved with. Angel is everything that she is supposed to hate and want to kill. Buffy has to start to question everything she thought that she knew about vampires. Growing up is all about being challenged and having to face obstacles. The normal relationship story of a tv show is put to the extreme with Angel. Before Buffy can really commit to any relationship she has much more to worry about than the average teenager. She is put in the situation where she has to reevaluate her ideas and ultimately herself.
ReplyDelete2. A moment that stuck out to me the most was when Buffy's mom was talking to Giles about his dedication to his students. She is completely in the dark about everything that is going on in her daughter's life. She grasps at straws to understand something that would be hard for any mom to figure out. Buffy's mom thinks nothing of the fact that her daughter's friend mysteriously disappeared after she saw someone stab herself and also she believes everything that Giles says. She really wants to believe that the teachers at Sunnydale High School care so much about there students that they visit their students' parents in the hospital. This episode shows the relationship that Buffy has with her mother. Relationships need a foundation of trust that is missing between the two of them. It is obvious that both of them love each other but there is definitely a strain in their relationship.
3. Cordelia's friends just follow her around because she is popular. Buffy, even though she has similar character traits as Cordelia, has a lot more responsibility and needs real relationships more. As a slayer Buffy has grown already and doesn't need the constant support and compliments that Cordelia needs to stay afloat. She has confidence in herself that is hard to find. Willow and Xander are not the most popular kids in their school but they are real friends, not minions. Buffy can fight her own battles, but knows that she needs help sometimes and accepts herself more. Whedon is possibly showing here that real friendships are built on more than social hierarchy and a chain of low self esteem. Cordelia feels insecure so she makes other people feel insecure who continue on the chain of insecurity. Buffy gets support from her friends, but she also has the confidence in herself to live in the moment and relax a little bit.
This episode, as just about everyone else has been saying, shows boy troubles. Buffy is a teenage girl so naturally this theme needs to be included. She continues to try and be normal, but she never can be. Her situation with Angel is the same way, because she is The Slayer and he is a vampire it is just about forbidden for them to be together. If the show is a coming of age story Buffy’s boy troubles are an important thing to include.
ReplyDeleteThe scene where Darla bites Buffy’s mother and then hands her to Angel stuck out to me the most. Buffy finds angel with her unconscious mother and then throws him through her window. Darla must be a particularly smart vampire to pin that on Angel so easily. This causes Buffy and Angel’s relationship to be tested.
The difference between the groups is just what they focus on. Cordelia’s posse focuses on wearing the same clothes and other petty matters. As opposed to Buffy and her gang who literally save the world on a daily basis. Buffy and Cordelia are both leaders in their respective groups and are very similar. Buffy could have been just another Cordelia if she hadn’t been born as a Slayer. Cordelia, if she applied herself, could probably do the same things that Willow and Xander do in helping Buffy, but that’s just not what she cares about.
1. In this episode, Buffy faces another challenge of growing up: the complications of relationships and love. Love seems like a typical teenage struggle, an expected step in the ladder towards adulthood. It’s a part of Buffy’s life which begins as separate from her job as the slayer, but with the revelation of Angel’s true identity the two become all too intertwined. Because of Angels vampiric nature, Buffy must confront a problem she’s never had before as her heart and emotions conflict with her duty of slaying. Accepting that she must kill him, Buffy sacrifices her own feelings for the overall greater good, a sign of incredible maturity.
ReplyDelete2. To be honest, this wasn’t a particularly memorable episode for me. But I would have to say my favorite part was when a flustered Buffy tries to explain the entries of her diary she believes Angel has read. While Buffy juggles a life with all sorts of vampires and demons, she does not write about those things, but instead about what one might consider more trivial issues such as her latest crush. It’s a decidedly normal, human thing to do, and serves as a reminder that Buffy, beneath her superpowers and slaying, is still a teenage girl.
3. Buffy and Cordelia both possess a certain power among their groups. Buffy was just naturally born with a gift that will forever separate her in a way from those around her. She is the one and only slayer, and it is her destiny to lead them in the fight against evil. Cordelia, probably through a combination of looks, money, and snappy insults, becomes the alpha of her own posse. Buffy and Cordelia maintain roles of leadership in their respective circles and even share similar personality traits, but the relationship between Buffy and her friends seems like a far more genuine, less superficial one than Cordelia and her followers. While Buffy could probably become another Cordelia and is even invited into that crew, she, because of her responsibility to battle vampires and such, loses that opportunity, probably for the better since she gets to experience true friendship with Willow and Xander.
This episode adds to the coming of age story in that Buffy learns more about trust. She trusts Angel, and then when she sees his true form, she realizes he hasn’t been completely honest with her. She is reluctant to forsake him completely because her feelings for him get in the way. The important miscommunication with Angel almost led to fatal consequences for one of them. Communication is something that students have to learn. She also has the added responsibility of taking care of her mother.
ReplyDeleteI was struck by how fast Buffy forgave Angel. As a viewer I wanted her to forgive him, but she went from trying to kill him to kissing him. Another point I’d like to bring up is, what kind of message does this show, and others where the girl falls for a dangerous and or much older man, send to young girls. I understand the appeal of Angel’s love being so strong that he resists his demonic nature and changes to be with her. However in real life, things are different.
Some of the obvious differences between Cordelia’s clique and Buffy’s group are, the popularity, the meanness, and their vapidity. The main difference is that Buffy’s group has a greater perspective on the world. While they are definitely not perfect, they have the ability to put things into perspective better than Cordelia’s clique, who is very shallow, and materialistic. Whedon might be making the point that it’s not always best to be popular.